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New Boat Builder

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Harry Ashworth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harry Ashworth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2010 at 08:15
I hope to get the minutes out soon ( we have no secretary). We resolved that a sub-committee would take this forward.
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Southpaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2010 at 21:20
The issue of linking up with a new builder is easier said than done.
 
I was looking through some old magazines recently and came across the 2000/2001 brochure issued by Speed Sails who had just begun to build Hornets for the class. I was dismayed to find that their catalogue did not mention the Hornet but did mention various other boats built and equipped by Speed Sails. There was a loose sheet of A4 included which set out the price list for the Hornet, this was included because I had requested one (per the covering letter it seems).
 
I am not critising Speed Sails in anyway as I rate that company very highly and in particular Richard Estauhouse (even though I cannot spell his name).
 
But it does show the need to get the package/agreement right with the proposed builder/developer.
 
Clearly we must give the appointed sub-committee time to progress this matter but may I ask have we established whether there is a frame of reference for them to act. In other words has the class decided what its initial "wish list" would be for the builder/developer to consider.
Southpaw
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DaveChiv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveChiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2010 at 00:21
I have just had a read through this subject offer a couple of comments. I was involved in the changes of several of the classes that have been mentioned and seen the the fall out and ongoing problems that still exist under the carpet with many of the manufacturers classes. Please be very careful before you sell your soul to the devil he will take everything and the devil has many faces.

The main thing I noted was that the "builder" wanted total control and I mean total. No more wooden boats, ownership of the copyright and basically the right to do what he wants when he wants with no reference to the class whatsoever. That is what ownership really means!

Of course the class needs to move forward but there are plenty of builders to talk to. The class rules allow an enormous variation in materials and shapes of foils and decks without the need for any rule changes.

Be careful that you do not end up with something that is called a Hornet but is nothing that you recognize! Working with a builder is one thing, being dictated to is another.
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Southpaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2010 at 22:38
I for one appreciate your comments, Dave. I am sure that the sub-committee formed will ensure that we do not trade the soul of the Hornet just to produce a few more boats.
 
Clearly, this is a question of balance -- a trade off of sorts.
 
One thing I do note is that no one has actually published suggestions of how this balance will be achieved. What will we give and what do we expect to receive in return. Perhaps we need to get this sorted out.
 
Dave, may I ask have you any thoughts about how this balance could be achieved.
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Loosieland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loosieland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2010 at 21:28
What a long thread but clearly an important one. Thank you John for your history leason.
 
I accept that we need to align ourselves with a builder committed to seeing the class grow and it is class growth that will keep the Hornet alive. But I do not think it is enough.
 
We need to be committed to the builder and comunicate with them.
 
The Devon Composite situation is a good example. The boat when shown at the 2008 dinghy exhibition caused a substantial exchange of e-mails over the legality of the cut away transom. I know of one potential newcomer to the class who was put off by the fact that the "New-style Hornet" could be illegal. His thoughts were that such matters should be resolved before production even started. He was thinking of ordering a boat reminiscent of the ISO he used to sail but not so extreme.
 
Also, in the thread there is little (in my opinion) concerning how we are going to support the builder. This is important if Yachts and Yachting classes review is to believed. Evidently one new boat was built during 2010 and that discussion are now underway with a new builder.
 
Clearly, details of the new builder cannot be disclosed if we are at the discussion stage but if the discussions are advanced then we need to  plan how we will showcase the boat and prevent any mistakes from the past being repeated.
 
Let us hope that there is life in the "Old Girl" yet.
 
Loosieland
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John Shelton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2010 at 11:12
Thanks for your comments. I agree that it has to be a two-way relationship between class and builder. I have to say that it didn't work out that way with DC and many of the problems could have been averted.
I think your ex-ISO sailor had a very good point, the but the fact remains, the new boat was illegal until we fixed the rules. If there had been better communication (for 'better', read 'any') with the builder, that issue could have been quickly sorted before production.
But the bizarre thing is that, after the interest at that Dinghy Show, we didn't have any brochures, price lists or even a phone number we could tell people to call.
Is that the builder's responsilbility or that of the class?
 
Anyway, water under bridge.
 
BTW - don't always believe what you read in Y&Y classes review Wink
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Southpaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2010 at 13:29
Thank you John for that cautionary tale about our immediate past builder.
 
I suggest readers look at Yachts and Yachting current edition page 076 to see how a builder should co-operate with a class. Rooster Sailing have taken out a full page advert based on the theme of co-operation between builder and class to produce a great boat to sail.
 
We need something similar and I am sure the appropriate sub-committee have this already on board.
 
You must not underestimate the damage done by the class having to fix the rules to make the new boats legal. I had just become an ex-Laser 5000 sailer when the "discussions" about the Hornet 2008 began and it put me of joining the class and so I went and bought an International Canoe, rather than persevere and find a new crew. I now have a new crew and my IC is up for sale.
 
I was delighted to read of the new boat and builder discussions, then I was brought down to earth by John's closing comments.Cry
 
Finally, tut tut John. Posting to this thread at 11:12 am. Should you not be at work!!! At least I posted this during my diner hour.Wink
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Heather View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2010 at 15:03
I notice that we have our 60th aniversary coming up in 2012 and this would be great to link in with a New Builder and various class activities. However, because getting a New Builder, one who will really support the class and be supported by the class will not be that easy I was wondering how things were progressing with the talks. Indeed can the name of any potential New Builder be disclosed.
 
Bearing in mind any development of the moulds (basically the decks) and any other suggestions (the spars and sails) will take time if we are to get it right are we in fact running out of time. I doubt if we could have anything ready in time for the 2011 Dinghy Show, which would have been a great lead in to the 2012 show and year.
 
So I was wondering if there is anything to report.
 
Heather.
 
ps. I am not being critical just curious as to how things are developing.
Heather
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sven_8t4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sven_8t4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2011 at 17:03
As another former loving Hornet owner I too am curious as to how the new builder saga is going, my girl 2047 was a great boat but with no regular crew and work commitments I had to give up sailing all together for 18months+

On a side note when i was a paid up member of the class for over 2 years I only ever recieved 2 bulletins / AGM notices.

On a final note I had another Hornet tomorrow and sell my Int 14 in a flash.

Steve
Former owner of 'Slippery When Wet 2047'
'Renaissance' Hornet 2100
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Southpaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2011 at 10:46
I agree with Heather and sven_8t4 in being curious as to how matters are progressing and wonder if the sub-committee have anything to report.

Making arrangements with a new builder will, I believe, be very difficult as the recession will have taken its toil on many builders. Despite the large number of classes in Yachts & Yachting stating "1" new boat built during 2010. Including the Hornet Wink .

Another problem is the boat is too large for a builder to built by themselves. Ever tried turning a Hornet over single-handed. So many sole-traders/ small builders will not be able to help. For instance Andrew Simmons who builds the Comet range of dinghies has had to lay of his two assistants because of the recession. The result is that despite a very limited number of orders for the boats he can now only build the Comet single-hander as he can build that by himself.

It is now, of course, a waiting game and perhaps the class should consider the boat to be shown at the Dinghy Show. We need to show a modern image so, in my opinion, the boat chosen should be one built by Devon Composites. A beautiful wooden boat will look nice but will not appeal to those who visit the stand.

But if they are interested and ask about the builder what are we going to say. I shudder to think.

Peter   
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